Dear Left the church, I understand your frustration and anger. But there are many Christians who embrace science, work for justice, etc. Read Francis Collins' THE LANGUAGE OF GOD. He led the huge project on the human genome and is now head of the National Institutes of Health. And he is an evangelical Christian! Please do not let the terrible misguided action by some Christians turn you away from Jesus. Ron Sider
Really appreciate your efforts. As I noted in another section I have voted for Trump twice. Wrestled with the decision after reading you book (we traded letters this summer). I struggled mightily with the Trump style but netted to vote for him a) because of the importance of life in the womb and the sanctity of marriage - one man, one woman but 2) while agree so much with you on the issues of race, climate, health insurance, etc. the tactics that the Democrats propose have proven to not work over the years e.g. we have known since 1812 with Adam Smith's writing of the Wealth of Nations, that no matter how much government intervenes, market demands move economies. Democrats tend to regulate and tax which bloats government and shrinks economic growth, which ironically in the long term hurts the vulnerable as unemployment rises and wages slump. Not that every Republican measure is perfect but the net effect is better overall. 3) this is the most important reason I voted for Trump - the Democrats at a strategic level are dominated by those who want to cancel you and I. Cancel culture, with it's fundamental base in sexual/gender freedoms, wants to marginalize Christians. This is the real danger.
What is next? I do not think putting all of our resources against weighing in on government policies will produce enough wins. There needs to be revival - without repentance from sin and truly trusting in Jesus there will not be changed hearts. And without changed hearts the social problems will only continue. The evidence is clear that the most effective and productive economic system is capitalism. But capitalism only works for all if it's leaders are generous. Generosity only comes from a changed heart. Governments make changes but really only select winners and losers (see the UK in the 70's and 80's). The movements for labor were similar to calls today in the United States. But it does not work. As Margaret Thatcher famously said, Socialism works until you run out of other people's money. On the climate issue. The US has made dramatic strides in lowering it's carbon footprint. Joining treaties like the Paris Accord sound wonderful but it is ineffective. The real polluters are China, India and others. Wonderful goal to lower carbon footprint but again the Democrats while well intentioned have strategies on paper that do not work in the real world.
Proposal: that leaders like you and others across the entire spectrum e.g. Franklin Graham, etc. find a way to unite. I had asked you in my letter this summer if you and the co-authors of your book had personally reached out to folks like Graham and Jeffress whom you criticized in the book. Seems per Matthew 18 that would be proper. If the leaders in Christendom cannot unite, can we expect the masses?
left the church reflects many of my sentiments its not been the last four years but the last forty years that has been the problem with the rise of the religious right and in the late 1970s and early 1980s. the sad thing is that the most high profile religion in the past forty years has been hateful self righteous mean spirited religion. It is not surprising that recent years have seen books openly expressing hostility to religion become best sellers. There is very little in evangelical theology i agree with. that said evangelical christianity is not monolithic. i predict that liberal christianity will make a comeback in the years ahead as people who have been put off by conservative religion but still seek a sense of the transcendent will start joining liberal mainline churches(all saints episcopal church in pasadena california is an example of a growing thriving liberal church. ) we are entering a multi-faith era in american religious life as faiths other than christianity and judaism: older non christian faiths such islam buddhism hinduism etc. as well as younger post christian faiths such as wicca new age religion goddess spirituality gain adherents. liberal christians don not understand God the same way conservative christians do they see doctrines such as jesus's resurrection his divinity etc as symbolic not literal but they are committed to the teachings of jesus.
to paraphrase matthew 5:17-18 post-christianity has come to fulfill jesus' teaching of love of neighbor and concern for the last of these not overturn it. not one letter of jesus teachings will pass away in a post-christian world.
liberal religion is not monolithic either. There are pro-life religious liberals. I am one.
As to other things addressed i am on the side of catholic social services in its case involving foster care before the u.s supreme court. Having had a girlfriend who because of serious mental illness lost a child to the foster care system and ultimately had to place the child up for adoption i understand this issue all too well. While i concede catholic social services views on lbgt people is wrong headed parents dealing with the foster care have a right to see to it that foster parents and adoptive parents reflect there values. I hope that when the supreme court
upholds catholic social services that it expands the inelegable to foster/adopt to other areas of catholic social teaching. if you indicate on you application that you work for planned parenthood or a military contractor such as lockheed martin you application will be retuned to you with a statement that your current employment indicates that it is in conflict with the values of our agency.
The excesses of the 1960s were an overreaction to the conformity of the 1950s. books such as the lonely crowd and the organization man documented this. One thing about the pandemic is it has brought home the importance of social life. zoom meetings and livestreams are no substitute for face to face personal contact. we need social life without alienation. that is all
Liberal religion is not monolithic. there are pro-life religious liberals out there(i am one of those
As I read your blog I thought of Moses. I am in no way comparing Biden to Moses. However the dynamics of trying to lead unwilling people is fascinating. No matter how often God showed Himself strong through the leadership of Moses people complained. God did the miraculous over and over and they still complained. Under God's tender and compassionate care they complained. Being freed without them having to raise a weapon wasn't enough for them.
Personally I don't think anyone can satisfy people who are determined not to be led or be satisfied.
No matter what President- Elect Joe Biden's administration does or does not do, if history is a teacher, some people will not be pleased.
Just a reminder that there were no store fronts smashed. The boarded up city streets were expecting rioting from who? I don't think the people being smeared as being "determined not to be led" were the people the boarded up shops were afraid of.
It seems that a viable third party might be useful in opening (necessitating) conversation and coalitions and compromise, given a situation where the two "major" parties no longer are near-majorities. In the two (massive) party system, we deal with deadlock or with one party having "power". Both two-party scenarios seem to lead to "take it or leave-it" tone of "negotiating". A viable (at least 25% following) third party may generate more creative compromising outcomes. How to develop a viable third party is of course the paradox, at least partly controlled by the two current parties.
I have lived all of my life in the midwest and I understand the frustration Left the Church has felt and am sorry his experiences caused him to leave the church. The important thing we have to remember about Christian churches in this country is that they aren't all the same even within denominations they vary greatly. I've grown in my understanding of what it means to live as a Christian and although I am still a member of a Baptist Church I know my beliefs are often quite different than many of the others but I hope I can help others understand that we are not to judge each other by our political differences. I think the best thing we can do now is try to provide leadership from a Christian perspective that is in line with the ideas put forth by Ron Sider and Pro-life evangelicals for Biden.
I want to help with this initiative and would like to know what I can do. I live in the Kansas City, Missouri area and would be interested in knowing who else might live in this area.
I arrived here in the states 20 years ago as a "born again" Christian. I joint a church, became member of a church, was active in the church. What I encountered here in the USA is an anti science church, where scientific ignorance is a badge of honor. But God made me a scientist long before I became a Christian. What I encountered here was a self praising christian elite, that basically was and is only concerned about their own power and their own standing in society. I have encountered an unexplainable dichotomy between live before birth that is considered sacrosanct but as soon as the head is out of the uterus human life becomes expendable: lack of health care ... they have to die anyway one day, tens of thousand killed by guns every year ... they have to die anyway one day, global warming that may cause millions of our own grandkids to become refugees and many of them will die, ... they will have to die anyway one day. The last four years the churches fully embraced the ugliness of Trump's character, and his ugliness became their own ugliness. Don't expect me to enter a church service anytime soon again. This ugliness is unbearable to me.
Amen. I would like faith leaders and influencers come together in a sacred assembly, or perhaps a Truth and Reconciliation commission. People like Franklin Graham and James Dobson.
Ron, what do we do now to help? Prayer, yes, but beyond that? I signed the Pro-Life Evangelicals for Biden petition, but don't know how to be involved beyond that?
Unity among his followers was Jesus’ greatest desire (John 17) and most effective means for spreading his message (John 13:35). We must never surrender our pursuit of this unity. But
if two thousand years of church history have shown an inability or unwillingness to unite all those who follow Christ, or to produce a movement that unifies the church, why should we think the future will be any different? What is the secret, the key to uniting people who think they alone hold the truth or the proper interpretation of Scripture, or the right way of doing church, with people they look down upon or even identify as heretics for their divergent views or practices? I wish I knew. I would like to say it’s simply following Jesus but sadly, most of us can’t even agree on what that looks like despite the prominence of the sermon on the mount, the example of Jesus’ life, and their reinforcement throughout the writings of the apostle Paul (Romans 13:8-11; 15:5-7; Philippians 2:1-11). More than any other source of doubt, more than any other issue or criticism of Christianity, more than any other stain or failure in the history of the church, for me it is this lack of unity which calls into question the validity of the Christian faith and makes hope for the survival of our nation and the fate of humanity slim at best. And yet, 2 Corinthians chapter 4.
“If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian.” -Gandhi
Ron, thank you for your commitment to the Lord in all you do and for your insights before and after the election! It would be a beautiful, powerful witness to God's ministry of reconciliation if brothers & sisters in Christ with diverse political views develop respectful dialog and collectively use their gifts & resources for compassionate change in the USA and beyond.
Dear Left the church, I understand your frustration and anger. But there are many Christians who embrace science, work for justice, etc. Read Francis Collins' THE LANGUAGE OF GOD. He led the huge project on the human genome and is now head of the National Institutes of Health. And he is an evangelical Christian! Please do not let the terrible misguided action by some Christians turn you away from Jesus. Ron Sider
How do you like the election results now? Former pupil.
Ron,
Really appreciate your efforts. As I noted in another section I have voted for Trump twice. Wrestled with the decision after reading you book (we traded letters this summer). I struggled mightily with the Trump style but netted to vote for him a) because of the importance of life in the womb and the sanctity of marriage - one man, one woman but 2) while agree so much with you on the issues of race, climate, health insurance, etc. the tactics that the Democrats propose have proven to not work over the years e.g. we have known since 1812 with Adam Smith's writing of the Wealth of Nations, that no matter how much government intervenes, market demands move economies. Democrats tend to regulate and tax which bloats government and shrinks economic growth, which ironically in the long term hurts the vulnerable as unemployment rises and wages slump. Not that every Republican measure is perfect but the net effect is better overall. 3) this is the most important reason I voted for Trump - the Democrats at a strategic level are dominated by those who want to cancel you and I. Cancel culture, with it's fundamental base in sexual/gender freedoms, wants to marginalize Christians. This is the real danger.
What is next? I do not think putting all of our resources against weighing in on government policies will produce enough wins. There needs to be revival - without repentance from sin and truly trusting in Jesus there will not be changed hearts. And without changed hearts the social problems will only continue. The evidence is clear that the most effective and productive economic system is capitalism. But capitalism only works for all if it's leaders are generous. Generosity only comes from a changed heart. Governments make changes but really only select winners and losers (see the UK in the 70's and 80's). The movements for labor were similar to calls today in the United States. But it does not work. As Margaret Thatcher famously said, Socialism works until you run out of other people's money. On the climate issue. The US has made dramatic strides in lowering it's carbon footprint. Joining treaties like the Paris Accord sound wonderful but it is ineffective. The real polluters are China, India and others. Wonderful goal to lower carbon footprint but again the Democrats while well intentioned have strategies on paper that do not work in the real world.
Proposal: that leaders like you and others across the entire spectrum e.g. Franklin Graham, etc. find a way to unite. I had asked you in my letter this summer if you and the co-authors of your book had personally reached out to folks like Graham and Jeffress whom you criticized in the book. Seems per Matthew 18 that would be proper. If the leaders in Christendom cannot unite, can we expect the masses?
All that said, here to help.
left the church reflects many of my sentiments its not been the last four years but the last forty years that has been the problem with the rise of the religious right and in the late 1970s and early 1980s. the sad thing is that the most high profile religion in the past forty years has been hateful self righteous mean spirited religion. It is not surprising that recent years have seen books openly expressing hostility to religion become best sellers. There is very little in evangelical theology i agree with. that said evangelical christianity is not monolithic. i predict that liberal christianity will make a comeback in the years ahead as people who have been put off by conservative religion but still seek a sense of the transcendent will start joining liberal mainline churches(all saints episcopal church in pasadena california is an example of a growing thriving liberal church. ) we are entering a multi-faith era in american religious life as faiths other than christianity and judaism: older non christian faiths such islam buddhism hinduism etc. as well as younger post christian faiths such as wicca new age religion goddess spirituality gain adherents. liberal christians don not understand God the same way conservative christians do they see doctrines such as jesus's resurrection his divinity etc as symbolic not literal but they are committed to the teachings of jesus.
to paraphrase matthew 5:17-18 post-christianity has come to fulfill jesus' teaching of love of neighbor and concern for the last of these not overturn it. not one letter of jesus teachings will pass away in a post-christian world.
liberal religion is not monolithic either. There are pro-life religious liberals. I am one.
As to other things addressed i am on the side of catholic social services in its case involving foster care before the u.s supreme court. Having had a girlfriend who because of serious mental illness lost a child to the foster care system and ultimately had to place the child up for adoption i understand this issue all too well. While i concede catholic social services views on lbgt people is wrong headed parents dealing with the foster care have a right to see to it that foster parents and adoptive parents reflect there values. I hope that when the supreme court
upholds catholic social services that it expands the inelegable to foster/adopt to other areas of catholic social teaching. if you indicate on you application that you work for planned parenthood or a military contractor such as lockheed martin you application will be retuned to you with a statement that your current employment indicates that it is in conflict with the values of our agency.
The excesses of the 1960s were an overreaction to the conformity of the 1950s. books such as the lonely crowd and the organization man documented this. One thing about the pandemic is it has brought home the importance of social life. zoom meetings and livestreams are no substitute for face to face personal contact. we need social life without alienation. that is all
Liberal religion is not monolithic. there are pro-life religious liberals out there(i am one of those
As I read your blog I thought of Moses. I am in no way comparing Biden to Moses. However the dynamics of trying to lead unwilling people is fascinating. No matter how often God showed Himself strong through the leadership of Moses people complained. God did the miraculous over and over and they still complained. Under God's tender and compassionate care they complained. Being freed without them having to raise a weapon wasn't enough for them.
Personally I don't think anyone can satisfy people who are determined not to be led or be satisfied.
No matter what President- Elect Joe Biden's administration does or does not do, if history is a teacher, some people will not be pleased.
Just a reminder that there were no store fronts smashed. The boarded up city streets were expecting rioting from who? I don't think the people being smeared as being "determined not to be led" were the people the boarded up shops were afraid of.
It seems that a viable third party might be useful in opening (necessitating) conversation and coalitions and compromise, given a situation where the two "major" parties no longer are near-majorities. In the two (massive) party system, we deal with deadlock or with one party having "power". Both two-party scenarios seem to lead to "take it or leave-it" tone of "negotiating". A viable (at least 25% following) third party may generate more creative compromising outcomes. How to develop a viable third party is of course the paradox, at least partly controlled by the two current parties.
I have lived all of my life in the midwest and I understand the frustration Left the Church has felt and am sorry his experiences caused him to leave the church. The important thing we have to remember about Christian churches in this country is that they aren't all the same even within denominations they vary greatly. I've grown in my understanding of what it means to live as a Christian and although I am still a member of a Baptist Church I know my beliefs are often quite different than many of the others but I hope I can help others understand that we are not to judge each other by our political differences. I think the best thing we can do now is try to provide leadership from a Christian perspective that is in line with the ideas put forth by Ron Sider and Pro-life evangelicals for Biden.
I want to help with this initiative and would like to know what I can do. I live in the Kansas City, Missouri area and would be interested in knowing who else might live in this area.
I arrived here in the states 20 years ago as a "born again" Christian. I joint a church, became member of a church, was active in the church. What I encountered here in the USA is an anti science church, where scientific ignorance is a badge of honor. But God made me a scientist long before I became a Christian. What I encountered here was a self praising christian elite, that basically was and is only concerned about their own power and their own standing in society. I have encountered an unexplainable dichotomy between live before birth that is considered sacrosanct but as soon as the head is out of the uterus human life becomes expendable: lack of health care ... they have to die anyway one day, tens of thousand killed by guns every year ... they have to die anyway one day, global warming that may cause millions of our own grandkids to become refugees and many of them will die, ... they will have to die anyway one day. The last four years the churches fully embraced the ugliness of Trump's character, and his ugliness became their own ugliness. Don't expect me to enter a church service anytime soon again. This ugliness is unbearable to me.
Amen. I would like faith leaders and influencers come together in a sacred assembly, or perhaps a Truth and Reconciliation commission. People like Franklin Graham and James Dobson.
Ron, what do we do now to help? Prayer, yes, but beyond that? I signed the Pro-Life Evangelicals for Biden petition, but don't know how to be involved beyond that?
Unity among his followers was Jesus’ greatest desire (John 17) and most effective means for spreading his message (John 13:35). We must never surrender our pursuit of this unity. But
if two thousand years of church history have shown an inability or unwillingness to unite all those who follow Christ, or to produce a movement that unifies the church, why should we think the future will be any different? What is the secret, the key to uniting people who think they alone hold the truth or the proper interpretation of Scripture, or the right way of doing church, with people they look down upon or even identify as heretics for their divergent views or practices? I wish I knew. I would like to say it’s simply following Jesus but sadly, most of us can’t even agree on what that looks like despite the prominence of the sermon on the mount, the example of Jesus’ life, and their reinforcement throughout the writings of the apostle Paul (Romans 13:8-11; 15:5-7; Philippians 2:1-11). More than any other source of doubt, more than any other issue or criticism of Christianity, more than any other stain or failure in the history of the church, for me it is this lack of unity which calls into question the validity of the Christian faith and makes hope for the survival of our nation and the fate of humanity slim at best. And yet, 2 Corinthians chapter 4.
“If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian.” -Gandhi
Ron, thank you for your commitment to the Lord in all you do and for your insights before and after the election! It would be a beautiful, powerful witness to God's ministry of reconciliation if brothers & sisters in Christ with diverse political views develop respectful dialog and collectively use their gifts & resources for compassionate change in the USA and beyond.